The new book UFOs TODAY – 70 Years of Lies, Misinformation and Government Cover-Ups by Irena Scott PhD contains an amount of controversial and thought provoking information as the title of the book might suggest. If I were a gambling man I would bet on one piece of information in this book being the most controversial within its pages. With it being the 70th anniversary of the Roswell Incident, an event that many claim was the crash of a space vehicle from an ET origin, the news that an alleged new witness emerging might not be that big a surprise.
The Roswell File and Charles H. Forgus.
In 2012, I was contacted by a gentleman called Scott Ferguson. Scott was part of a production company called White Tiger Films. He explained to me that he had some information on the Roswell Incident that he would like me to take a look at. I had first to sign a non-disclosure agreement which I did. Once this was signed I was sent what Scott called his ‘Roswell File’. He was looking to possibly make a movie based around this file and asked if I could help research the alleged witness. I of course agreed. The ‘Roswell File’ consisted of a transcript of an interview with the alleged witness Charles H. Forgus, a video interview with him and a photo as well. The story of how White Tiger Films obtained this material is I would say quite unique.
The witness to the Roswell crash scene was Deputy Sheriff Charles H Fogus of Howard County, Texas. He was interviewed in 1999 by Los Angeles private investigator Deanna Short. Deanna recorded the interview on video and later had a transcript done of the interview and completed her Agency report to verify facts at that time related to Charles Forgus and Sheriff Jess Slaughter – both of Howard County, Texas.
Sheriff Jess Slaughter and Deputy Sheriff Charles Fogus were allegedly travelling together in early July, 1947 from Texas to Roswell to pick up a prisoner when they happened on the Roswell crash scene in New Mexico. Both were there and were on an overlook to view the crash scene recovery by the Army. I should note that according to Deanna’s daughter Mackenzie, Charles made a special effort to note to Deanna “not to believe what others will say – he and the Sheriff did witness the Roswell crash scene”.
Deanna is now deceased but her daughter Mackenzie Christian has kept Deanna’s files that include the Roswell case which includes the video interview. Robert Short is Deanna’s son. Both Mackenzie and Robert are themselves experienced investigators having worked along side there mom in years past. Robert has taken up the work to investigate both Sheriff Jess Slaughter and Deputy Sheriff Charles Fogus.
In 1999 Deanna verified the background, including living relatives of both law enforcement individuals that existed at the time and documented that in her agency intelligence report.
I will producer here the transcript of the interview with Charles Forgus which was conducted in 1999. Some words have been redacted but not by me but by Deanna Bever.
The Roswell Incident – July 1947
Complete Tape Transcript
Mr. Charles Forgus statement taken on Monday, June 21, 1999 at 11:30 A.M. Transcribed from audio cassette tape on June 22, 1999
LR: What I’m trying to do is pierce together……
CF: I was working for the Sheriff of . I was a Deputy there for Sheriff Slaughter, was back in the 40’s. We went to Roswell to pick up a prisoner. When we got there, the land was covered with soldiers. They were hauling a big, a creature. Hauling him away.
What I seen of him looked just like the one we see on television, with big eyes. There was a big round thing in the canyon. It was about 100 feet across. They put that on a truck and hauled it away. They wouldn’t let us get very close to it either. So we headed up to get the prisoner in Roswell and back to.
LR: So you were on your way from to Roswell to pick up a prisoner and you happened to be at that place……
CF: It already had crashed. They were taking them out. There were soldiers there….about 3 or 4 hundred of them. They wouldn’t let you get very close. They were keeping all the people away. People were coming out there.
LR: What did the saucer (we’ll call it) look like?
CF: It was a big round thing. Across the middle it was about 100 feet.
LR: Did you see any lights around it?
CF: No, they went out when it banged into the wall in the creek. It was like a mountain on the side of the creek.
LR: Did you see any creatures: How many did you see?
CF: Yeh, I saw them. I think I seen about four (of them).
LR: were they covered up?
CF: Mostly. I saw the legs and feet on some of them.
LR: What did the feet look like? Do you remember?
CF: They looked like our feet.
LR: Could you figure how tall they were? They were laying flat, Right?
CF: Yeh, There is one thing I do remember. The Great Father didn’t just make this planet…. He made all of them. He put beings on these planets just like he put us on this one. They’re smarter then we are. They can get from there to here, but we can’t get from here to there.
(Note: CF is rather deaf. He wears two hearing aid appliances in this ears, so he answers my questions as follows …)
LR: Why do you think they’re here then?
CF: I don’t know where they hauled them. They might have hauled them to the hospital or somewhere.
LR: How long were you and Sheriff Slaughter at that site after you arrived?
CF: About 30 Minutes?
LR: Did you tell anyone about it?
CF: The Army was there and military soldiers were there.
LR: Did they tell you not to say anything?
CF: No, they didn’t tell me nothing’. They wouldn’t let you get close to ‘em.
LR: Did they actually see you observing what was going on?
CF: Sure, they saw me lookin’ at them.
LR: And they didn’t tell you to not say anything…..
CF: No, They wouldn’t let us get close to them. We were about 10 away.
LR: You were that close?
CF: We might have been further away. I didn’t have glasses then, I could see pretty good.
DB: What was your official capacity then?
CF: I was a Deputy The County Seat was I was riding with the Sheriff when we went to get the prisoner.
He didn’t order nobody except me to go with him. The UFO was already down when we got there. We went and got the prison afterwards. We heard about it on the radio.
LR: What did you hear on the radio?
CF: That the thing had crashed.
LR: But they didn’t know what ‘the thing’ was?
CF: No. But you would think that when people hear something like this, it scares the heck out of them. This came out of the POLICE RADIO. We were on the way through there (to pick up the prisoner) when we heard it on the police radio. It was a big distance from to Roswell…you can look on a map and see it.
LR: So let me ask you this. When you guys were driving down the road and you were listening to the police radio……
LR: Do you remember what was said on the radio about whatever it was… Do you recall?
CF: All I remember is they said that a saucer crashed out there in the canyon.
LR: They actually said the word ‘saucer’?
CF: They can call it a saucer if they want to but there ain’t a big enough cup of coffee for that thing.
LR: How long do you think you were at the site? (Note the cookoo clock goes off at noon)
CF: Probably about 20 minutes. We seen them haul them (the bodies) out there, out of the canyon up to the trucks….puttin them on the tow trucks so they could haul them.
DB: Did anyone try to get you to leave the scene.
CF: No….they told the Sheriff that we had to go. That was good enough for us….He’s the boss.
LR: When they were taking the beings (we’ll call them), were the beings laying on the ground around the saucer?
CF: Yeh, they were lifting them up with a crane that they had and picking them up and swinging them to put them on the truck. The bodies must have been 5 feet tall.
LR: Did you see the heads?
CF: Yeh….they were covered. They eyes looked like the ones we see on television and the pictures of them.
LR: What color was the skin?
CF: As much as I could tell….the skin was a brownish color…. Like they were in the sun too long.
LR: From the time it crashed until the time you got there, do you know how much time went by? From the time you heard it on the police radio until you got there?
CF: About two hours.
LR: Did you see any writing or engraving on the saucer?
CF: I wasn’t that close to it?
LR: If you were say 12 feet away from the beings, how far were the beings away from the saucer. Were they thrown pretty far?
CF; We couldn’t see that well because of the trees. It was in a riverbank. It slammed into a river bank. I say them lifting one up with the crane.
LR: Did anyone else talk to you about what was going on?
CF: There were some solders, but I don’t think they were from the Air Force.
LR: Where do you think they were from then?
CF: I don’t know. They were wearing uniforms. I didn’t pay no attention cause I just wanted to go with the Sheriff to get the heck out of there before something happened.
LR: When you guys were in the car to go pick the guy up, did you discuss or talk about what you had seen with the Sheriff?
CF: No. I didn’t know what they were and he didn’t either or where they came from or nothin.
DB: Did you see any blood on the bodies?
CF: I don’t know…. I guess they were dead.
LR: You’re 81 years old now. When and where were you born?
CF: I was born in I don’t know what city.
LR: You have been in the
CF: I sure have, before I became a Deputy Sheriff.
LR: So when this thing at Roswell happened, you were already out of the Army and were a Deputy Sheriff. That happened in 1947. Now it’s 1999. That was 52 years ago, Charlie. And you still remember it clearly?
CF: Yeh, pretty clear.
LR: Has anyone ever talked to you or asked you to talk about what happened…like to the Government, cause there’s a lot of research going on now because of the cover-up.
CF: There was one that came around, and I told him to shut up and not come around. I don’t know who they were. That was when I was Deputy Sheriff.
LR: When you saw the saucer, can you remember in your mind what it looked like. Can you draw it?
CF: No….you draw it?
(Note: Charlie had LR draw because he broke his arm and can’t use it). He directed LP to draw a circle (not an oval). Then he directed LR to draw another circle with the circle. This was a drawing of the top of the saucer. Charlie was standing on top of the opposite side of the bank of the dry creek bed where the saucer had crashed.
LR: Were you standing above it?
CF: I was standing on the back side. The saucer hit the bank on this side of the creek and I was standing on the other side of the bank, at the top of the hill. I was looking down at the site.
LR: So you had a ‘bird’s eye view‘, that’s why you were able to see the top of it?
CF: I didn’t have a ‘bird’s eye, I’ve got my own eyes (he laughs)
LR: LR shows Charlie the drawing. LR says, if this is the top (of the saucer), how much higher were you.
CF: Probably about 20 feet above it.
LR: So, that’s why you saw the top (of the saucer). And you say, that from here to here (across the top of the saucer – diameter) is about 100 feet.
CF: It was evenly round.
LR: So it was absolutely round…. Not oval shaped and you were 20 feet above it, that’s why you saw the top.
LR: did you see the fingers and hands?
CF: No, they were covered up. But I saw the head.
LR: But you said you saw the feet.
CF: Yeh, later on, when they were passing by I saw the feet. I could see them lifting it up with the crane. They wouldn’t let you close enough when they were puttin’ them into the truck. When they were liftin them on the crane you could see them layin’ on that thing.
LR: You said the body was covered. Were the arms layin on the stomach under the cover?
CF: When the wind blew, the cover went back so you could see the face. The same way with the feet.
End of Interview
©2011 Robert Short
All rights reserved
Nothing has been changed in the above transcript and who LR is I have no idea. No sooner had I started to try and help Scott Ferguson that all communication with him abruptly ceased. No matter how I tried to contact him I had no reply. So that is where I left it. It wasn’t until 2014 that I had an email from Robert Short (Deanna Bevers son) informing me that Scott had died. Any further work on this material was again delayed because of my own serious ill health.
In 2016, I contacted Robert Short and asked him if I could publish this material and try and continue with the investigation into it. Robert agreed and permission was granted. I asked for the assistance of Chris Evers, Irena Scott PhD and the Mutual UFO Network. The investigation into this material is on-going but between us we have managed to establish a few things. For example Sheriff Slaughter was not the Sheriff in 1947. He was in fact Sheriff twice, the first time from 1928 until 1940 and the second was 1953 to 1956. The Sheriff in 1947 was R.L. Wolf (see Sheriff’s log). We have also located his military discharge papers from WWII. On top of that there are a number of local newspapers that mention Charles Forgus.
On January 31st 2017 the MUFON report on Charles Forgus was sent to me by Chase Kloetzke. We would like to thank Chase, her colleagues and MUFON in general for their assistance with this research into Charles Forgus.
REPORT ON MUFON SAT Case # 17MSAT01ROS-001
January 31, 2017
PART ONE-DEPUTY FORGUS’S STORY
In 1999 a resident of Big Spring Texas gave a deposition to a private investigator claiming that he was a witness to the Roswell UFO crash in July of 1947.
Charles Forgus Jr. was born on January 28, 1918 and died in 2001. He would have been 29 years old in 1947 when the incident is alleged to have taken place. He called himself a Deputy Sheriff for Howard County.
His co-witness was Sheriff Jess Slaughter. Slaughter was born in 1896 per the 1940 census. His obituary states he was born in 1894 and died in 1972.
So in 1947 Charles Forgus was 29 and his Sheriff Jess Slaughter was 53. Logical ages for their positions.
Charles Forgus related that “in the 1940s” he and Jess Slaughter were travelling between Big Spring Texas and Roswell New Mexico to pick up and return a prisoner to Big Spring which is the Howard County Texas seat. Both Forgus and Slaughter lived in Big Spring.
In the New Mexico portion of the journey travelling west to pick up the prisoner, they came across a crash and debris site in the desert. They observed three to four hundred Army personnel scouring the crash site. They observed a crashed “circular” saucer about 100 feet in diameter. They also saw two dead bodies being loaded onto a truck. The disc was described as circular, metal and had a second circle within it possibly a cupola. They explained their vantage point was over a dry river/creek bed viewable from the highway. The saucer had crashed into the riverbank below. Their vantage point was approximately 20 feet above the embankment presumably from the highway.
They witnessed two corpses being loaded onto a truck. The corpses were covered with sheets but wind allowed the officers to see human type feet, brown skin, large eyes on the head and they approximated the bodies as being 5 feet tall.
It is suggested that they were fairly close to Roswell and actually returned with the prisoner and saw more of the clean-up operation. The operation went on for hours presumably during daylight.
There are three main problems associated with the 1999 interview of Charles Forgus Jr. He was interviewed by Los Angeles private investigator Deanna Short. Deanna recorded the interview on video and later had a transcript done of the interview and completed her Agency report to verify facts at that time. Deanna is now deceased.
First, unbelievably, the interrogator did not ask Mr. Forgus for a date (not even a year) nor did she ask the location of the incident such as what highway it occurred on or the name of a nearby town even! Ms. Short included an introduction to the interview where she states the witnesses encountered the incident in July of 1947 but there is nothing to base this on in the interview. As we shall see, it is more likely the witnesses encountered something in 1953 and not 1947.
Secondly, from the information Mr.Mantle, the person requesting MUFON’s assistance, initially provided to SAT, it appears Mr. Jesse Slaughter was a Sheriff in Howard County, Texas in the 1930s up to 1940. Subsequent follow-up by SAT revealed there is a gap of ten years until he was again elected Sheriff in 1951 (not 1953 as mentioned below).
I contacted the Howard County Texas Public Library and was sent this reply:
From: “Reference” <firstname.lastname@example.org>
To: “ROBERT” <email@example.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 6:34:10 PM
Subject: RE: reference request
I could find no listings for past sheriffs of Howard County. The attachment is an online search of the Big Spring Herald. What I can determine is that Jess Slaughter was sheriff in the thirties. Then lost the position in 1940 and later won re-election in 1953. Deputy C.H. Forgus became deputy under Sheriff Slaughter in 1953.
You can access the Big Spring Herald online and search the articles like I did. I could find no articles in the 1940’s listing Jess Slaughter as Sheriff. I found one article listing him as the Juvenile Officer. The caption below the picture at the bottom of the attachment provides a great deal of information if you can read it.
Johnny Schafer, Reference Librarian
Howard County Library
Big Spring, TX
This makes it unlikely that this was the Roswell crash of July 1947. 1953 or later is the best timeframe for the incident.
Lastly, while I found numerous direct line members of the Forgus and Slaughter families, all attempts to contact them via Facebook and telephone have been unsuccessful. It is my feeling that they do not wish to respond.
All indications are that they did not happen upon the Roswell Crash Incident. Mr. Forgus became a Deputy in 1953. Mr. Slaughter again became a Sheriff in 1951. Best estimate is affair happened in 1953.
The most important aspect of the story is that while no location is given we know from the transcript that the two men were travelling west inside New Mexico.
We also know that according to Google Maps there are only two principal highways between Big Spring Texas and Roswell New Mexico – a northern and a southern route.
The Northern Route-
This route leaves Big Spring on a north-western trajectory and then turns due west to Roswell. The north-western leg of the route utilizes highway 87 north to highway 137 north. The turn westward uses Interstate 380 west for the remainder of the trip into Roswell. The important leg of this trek inside New Mexico from the Texas border to Roswell is approximately 85 miles on Route 380 west.
The Southern Route-
We leave Big Spring Texas heading due west on Route 176. At the Texas into New Mexico border route 176 becomes Rt. 234 and there are multiple routes to travel but in one good scenario described later, Route 234 west meets Route 18 North up to Hobbs and again goes west with Route 62 west to Route 529 west to Route 82 west to Route 285 north which brings you into Roswell from the South. It is this route that is the most promising.
The one caveat is that the Interstate Highway System was only under construction in the late 40s and early 50s. There may have been a more rural road in existence prior to the creation of Interstate 380. Therefore, some parameters may have changed such as location of the road and the elimination of certain landmarks such as a small dry creek bed with a 20 foot drop to the embankment by a large group of trees which is crucial to any continuing investigation.
THE SOUTHERN ROUTE SCENARIO
The critical question is what did the two law enforcement officers see?
Possible resolutions are:
- Extraterrestrial Craft with non-human pilots
- Military Exercise
- Plane Crash (military or civilian)
- American VTOL disc crash
Since we no longer have witnesses to clarify their answers, perhaps the only avenue is to find a newspaper account. The southern route scenario offers a resolution.
In the case of Roswell in 1947, thousands of pages of documentation have been scoured including aircraft crashes. The best course of action in this investigation was to pursue leads in 1953 when Forgus became a Deputy Sheriff.
On August 28, 1953, the Reno Evening Gazette ran a small front page story on a military air crash that reads as follows:
ELEVEN AIRMEN ESCAPE IN CRASH
ROSWELL N.M. AUGUST 28, 1953 (AP)
Eleven airmen escaped unhurt last night when their 4 engined B-50 bomber landed wheels up on gently rolling plains 35 miles southwest of Tatum, N.M. in southeast New Mexico. The plane of the 97th bomber wing at Biggs Air Force Base, El Paso Texas and piloted by Chester A. Walter, was on a routine training flight.
If one draws a map southwest of Tatum, the closest highway it approaches on Mr. Forgus and Mr. Slaughter’s southern route is Route 62 west about 42 miles west of Hobbs N.M. and about 10 degrees south of Tatum. It is an almost perfect fit as it is approximately 36 miles southwest of Tatum.
This would coincide with their westward trip shortly before they turned north to Roswell.
There are problems with this August 28th story however. First, there were no dead bodies. All crew members survived. Second, the craft was not circular but had a plane’s fuselage. However, the front of the B-50 bomber had a very unique multi-windowed cockpit that seen straight on could have been construed as disc shaped.
Additionally, Forgus reported the object as 100 feet in diameter. The B-50 was 99 feet long. Coincidence? It was also silver metallic.
It is a stretch that the B-50 accident could have been the object seen by the lawmen but it is also quite reasonable given the circumstances given the color, cockpit shape, month and year etc.
One theory is that the B-50 crash story was only a cover story to obfuscate the real story of a crash of a disc shaped object; a crash where pilots (human or non-human perished).
It is also possible that if it was an American made VTOL disc shaped craft it was attempting to land on the highway but fell short due to mechanical difficulties. This would explain its proximity to the highway.
In 1967 evidence was located at McDill Air Force Base that VTOLS as large as 116 feet in diameter had been built by the U.S. Military.
An alien craft is unlikely in that it probably would not have wanted such a strategically unpleasant location to land if it was having difficulties. However, the two non-human pilot bodies, if accurate, pose a dilemma in this scenario.
RECOMMENDATION AND CONCLUSION
If there is a MUFON Field Investigator living in the vicinity of Roswell, it may be beneficial to have him drive Route 380 between the Texas border and Roswell to see if he can identify the place described in Mr. Forgus’s deposition.
If Route 380 can be ruled out, the roads between Hobbs, N.M AND Roswell N.M. should be travelled specifically Route 62 west to Route 529 west to Route 82 west to Route 285 north into Roswell to locate a small cliff and riverbed.
If a good location candidate can be found, an excursion to the area would be in order to try and retrieve artefacts.
In the event a FI cannot be enlisted, alternatives would include inquiring of the State Police or even tow truck company dispatchers in the Roswell area for the solicitation of information on a possible location.
It seems highly unlikely that Mr. Forgus was forging a story from untruths. His timeframe is off but it seems likely that he came across something unusual in the desert along with Mr. Slaughter. At times his story stretches the truth such as the sheet flapping in the wind allowing him to see parts of the two corpses. However, details such as that they were going to return a prisoner from Roswell to Big Spring are superfluous details a liar would not include.
Unfortunately, the 1999 private investigator did not attempt to get an exact year or location thus crippling efforts 18 years later.
It also seems more likely that the event occurred in 1953 when the U.S. Military was experimenting with Vertical Take off Landing (VTOL) disc shaped craft some of which were 100 feet in diameter and probably piloted by one or two airmen.
It would also be a stretch based on the limited evidence we have to suggest the most likely scenario would be the crash of an alien disc.
If the site cannot be found by a MUFON Field Investigator or other means, the case should be closed out as “INSUFFICIENT DATA.”
January 31, 2017
— End of MUFON Report —
We wish to make it clear that we are open minded with regards to the veracity of what Charles Forgus has claimed. We have found a discrepancy in his story as Sheriff Slaughter was not the Sheriff in 1947. We would also like say that we found the MUFON report extremely compelling and we agree with their findings.
I dare say many of those that know far more than me about the Roswell Incident will write it off as it does not fit the known Roswell crash scenario. All I will say is that we are working together to try and find any more information and I leave this ‘Roswell File’ open just-in-case.
If anyone reading this has any information concerning the Roswell Incident we urge them to get in touch.
The book UFOs TODAY will be officially launched at the official Roswell Incident conference organised by the Roswell Daily Record from June 30th to July 2nd: http://www.roswellincident.com/
UFOs TODAY – 70 Years of Lies, Misinformation and Government Cover-Ups by Irena Scott PhD is out now on Amazon.
Editor’s note: OpenMinds.tv’s very own Alejandro Rojas will be presenting at the Roswell Daily Record’s Roswell Incident on Saturday, July 1 in Roswell. Check out RoswellIncident.com for more information.
I find these conclusions somewhat mystifying…a VTOL crash would’ve clearly had some military markings on the vehicle…did I miss mention of ?.. and any adults would likely not mistake it for an unknown saucer-like object anyway. Calling this a possible 1953 incident sounds like ageism.the same bias used by the government with the “crash test dummies” blather of 1997…More questions….
As the old guy says he is working with Sheriff Slaughter it stands to reason it must be 1951+ and probably after 1953 when he because deputy and not 1947. These are the sort of basic details that can be verified.
But an interview 48 years after the event leads to a lot of inaccuracy no matter who is involved, and the feeling of importance in being interviewed about a special event so long ago, is surely going to lead to extra embellishments like limbs, faces and bodies … and little details to provide “proof”.
I have no idea what this guy saw, but it certainly wasn’t a 1947 incident in Roswell.
Please view my interview video and it might share some light on the Roswell story:
1630 Williams HWY 368
Grants Pass, OR 97527
Excellent work. One point worth mentioning. I would not think the crash of a VTOL would warrant 300 to 400 men on site. It is also unlikely that human remains of Air Force pilots would be removed by crane.
Also, it seems a bit odd that both the Sheriff and Deputy Sheriff would be sent to pick up a prisoner. Who’s minding the store. Seems like a job for lower staff. Which is to say Forgus was with Slaughter. Slaughter had been a sheriff, Forgus had been a deputy sheriff. The very old man remembers this, but misremembers what their status was at the time of the trip.